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Transcript of Interview of Greg Palast,
Journalist for BBC and Observer,
by Alex Jones
Alex Jones Radio Show, Monday (PM), March 4, 2002
AJ: This is earth shattering. Can you break it down for us and tell
us what the economists have done?
GP: Well, I'll tell you two things. One, I spoke to the former chief
economist, Joe Stiglitz who was fired by the (World) Bank. So I, on
BBC and with Guardian, basically spent some time debriefing him. It
was like one of the scenes out of Mission Impossible, you know where
the guy comes over from the other side and you spend hours debriefing
him. So I got the insight of what was happening at the World Bank. In
addition, he did not brief me but I got some other sources. He would
not give me inside documents but other people handed me a giant stash
of secret documents from the World Bank and the International Monetary
AJ: So to insulate himself, somebody else did it.
GP: No, I'm telling you. He wouldn't touch it but I really did get from
completely independent sources a big stack of documents.
AJ: Just like you got W199I, from the same folks we got it from.
GP: And so one of the things that is happening is that, in fact, I was
supposed to be on CNN with the head of the World Bank Jim Wolfensen
and he said he would not appear on CNN ever if they put me on. And so
CNN did the craziest thing and pulled me off.
AJ: So now they are threatening total boycott.
GP: Yea right. So what we found was this. We found inside these documents
that basically they required nations to sign secret agreements, in which
they agreed to sell off their key assets, in which they agreed to take
economic steps which are really devastating to the nations involved
and if they didn't agree to these steps, there was an average for each
nation that signed one-hundred and eleven items that they are required
to sign on to. If they didn't follow those steps they would be cut-off
from all international borrowing. You can't borrow any money in the
international marketplace. No one can survive without borrowing, whether
you are people or corporations or countries - without borrowing some
money and having some credit and ...
AJ: Because of the debt inflation pit they've created.
GP: Yea, well, see one of the things that happened is that - we've got
examples from, I've got inside documents recently from Argentina, the
secret Argentine plan. This is signed by Jim Wolfensen, the president
of the World Bank. By the way, just so you know, they are really upset
with me that I've got the documents, but they have not challenged the
authenticity of the documents. First, they did. First they said those
documents don't exist. I actually showed them on television. And cite
some on the web, I actually have copies of some...
AJ: Greg Palast dot com?
GP: Yea, gregpalast.com. So then they backed off and said yea those
documents are authentic but we are not going to discuss them with you
and we are going to keep you off the air anyway. So, that's that. But
what they were saying is look, you take a country like Argentina, which
is, you know, in flames now. And it has had five presidents in five
weeks because their economy is completely destroyed.
AJ: Isn't it six now?
GP: Yea, it's like the weekly president because they can't hold the
nation together. And this happened because they started out in the end
of the 80s with orders from the IMF and World Bank to sell-off all their
assets, public assets. I mean, things we wouldn't think of doing in
the US, like selling off their water system.
AJ: So they tax the people. They create big government and big government
hands it off to the private IMF/World Bank. And when we get back, I
want to get to the four-parts that you elegantly lay out here where
they actually pay off the politicians billions to their Swiss bank accounts
to do this transfer.
GP: That's right.
AJ: This is like one of the biggest stories ever, Sir. I'm sorry, please
GP: So what's happening is - this is just one of them. And by the way,
it's not just anyone who gets a piece of the action. The water system
of Buenos Aires was sold off for a song to a company called Enron. A
pipeline was sold off, that runs between Argentina and Chile, was sold
off to a company called Enron.
AJ: And then the globalists blow out the Enron after transferring the
assets to another dummy corporation and then they just roll the theft
GP: You've got it. And by the way, you know why they moved the pipeline
to Enron is that they got a call from somebody named George W. Bush
AJ: Unbelievable, Sir. Stay right there. We are talking to Greg Palast.
AJ: We are talking to Greg Palast. He is an award-winning journalist,
an American who has worked for the BBC, London Guardian, you name it,
who has dropped just a massive bomb-shell on the Globalists and their
criminal activity. There is no other word for it. You link through at
inforwars.com, you can link to his web site - gregpalast.com, or any
of the other great reports he has been putting out. He now has the secret
documents. We have seen the activity of the IMF/World Bank for years.
They come in, pay off politicians to transfer the water systems, the
railways, the telephone companies, the nationalized oil companies, gas
stations - they then hand it over to them for nothing. The Globalists
pay them off individually, billions a piece in Swiss bank accounts.
And the plan is total slavery for the entire population. Of course,
Enron, as we told you was a dummy corporation for money laundering,
drug money, you name it, from the other reporters we have had on. It's
just incredibly massive and hard to believe. But it is actually happening.
Greg Palast has now broken the story world-wide. He has actually interviewed
the former top World Bank economist. Continuing Sir with all these points.
I mean for the average person out there, in a nutshell, what is the
system you are exposing?
GP: We are exposing that they are systematically tearing nations apart,
whether it's Ecuador or Argentina. The problem is some of these bad
ideas are drifting back into the U.S. In other words, they have run
out of places to bleed. And the problem is, this is the chief economist,
this is not some minor guy. By the way, a couple of months ago, after
he was fired, he was given the Nobel Prize in Economics. So he is no
fool. He told me, he went into countries where they were talking about
privatizing and selling off these assets. And basically, they knew,
they literally knew and turned the other way when it was understood
that leaders of these countries and the chief ministers would salt away
hundreds of millions of dollars.
AJ: But it's not even privatization. They just steal it from the people
and hand it over to the IMF/World Bank.
GP: They hand it over, generally to the cronies, like Citibank was very
big and grabbed half the Argentine banks. You've got British Petroleum
grabbing pipelines in Ecuador. I mentioned Enron grabbing water systems
all over the place. And the problem is that they are destroying these
systems as well. You can't even get drinking water in Buenos Aires.
I mean it is not just a question of the theft. You can't turn on the
tap. It is more than someone getting rich at the public expense.
AJ: And the IMF just got handed the Great Lakes. They have the sole
control over the water supply now. That's been in the Chicago Tribune.
GP: Well the problem that we have is - look, the IMF and the World Bank
is 51% owned by the United States Treasury. So the question becomes,
what are we getting for the money that we put into there? And it looks
like we are getting mayhem in several nations. Indonesia is in flames.
He was telling me, the Chief Economist, Stiglitz, was telling me that
he started questioning what was happening. You know, everywhere we go,
every country we end up meddling in, we destroy their economy and they
end up in flames. And he was saying that he questioned this and he got
fired for it. But he was saying that they even kind of plan in the riots.
They know that when they squeeze a country and destroy its economy,
you are going to get riots in the streets. And they say, well that's
the IMF riot. In other words, because you have riot, you lose. All the
capital runs away from your country and that gives the opportunity for
the IMF to then add more conditions.
AJ: And that makes them even more desperate. So it is really an imperial
economy war to implode countries and now they are doing it here with
Enron. They are getting so greedy - they are preparing it for this country.
GP: I've just been talking to, out in California just yesterday, from
here in Paris, the chief investigators of Enron for the State of California.
They are telling me some of the games these guys are playing. No one
is watching that. It's not just the stockholders that
got ripped off. They sucked millions, billions of dollars out of the
public pocket in Texas and California in particular.
AJ: Where are the assets? See, everybody says there are no assets left
since Enron was a dummy corporation - from the experts I've had on and
they transferred all those assets to other corporations and banks.
GP: Well yea, this stuff has really gone just like a three-card Monty
game. I mean remember that there is money at the bottom. You did pay
California's electric bills according to the investigations, they are
telling me that they were pumped up unnecessarily by 9 to 12 billion
dollars. And I don't know who they are going to get it back from now.
AJ: Well they actually caught the Governor buying it for $137 per megawatt
and selling it back to Enron for $1 per megawatt and doing it over and
over and over again.
GP: Yea, the system has gotten completely out of control and these guys
knew exactly what was happening. Well, you have to understand that some
of the guys who designed the system in California for deregulation then
went to work for Enron right after. In fact, here I'm in London right
now and we have, the British has some responsibility here. The guy who
was on the audit committee of Enron, Lord Wakeham. And this guy is a
real piece of work, there isn't a conflict of interest that he hasn't
been involved in.
AJ: And he is the head of NM Rothschild.
GP: There isn't anything that he doesn't have his fingers in. He's on
something like fifty Boards. And one of the problems, he was supposed
to be head of the audit committee watching how Enron kept the books.
And in fact, they were paying him consulting fees on the side. He was
in Margaret Thatcher's government and he's the one who authorized Enron
to come into Britain and take over power plants here in Britain. And
they owned a water system in the middle of England. This is what this
guy approved and then they gave him a job on the board. And on top of
being on the board, they gave him a huge consulting contract. So you
know, this guy was supposed to be in charge of the audit committee to
see how they were handling their accounts.
AJ: Well, he is also the head of the board to regulate the media.
GP: Yes, he is, because I have run into real problems, because he regulates
AJ: They are also trying to pass laws in England where you've got an
800-year old well, or in some cases a 2000-year old well that the Romans
built that's on your property and they say we are putting a meter on
it. You can't have your own water.
GP: Yea, and that's Lord Wakeham. I mean this is the guy from Enron.
He is a real piece of work. He can't be touched here because like I
say he actually regulates the media. So if you complain, he's got his
hand on your pen.
AJ: Burrow into NM Rothschild, you'll find it all there. Go through
these four points. I mean you've got the documents. The IMF/World Bank
implosion, four points, how they bring down a country and destroy the
resources of the people.
GP: Right. First you open up the capital markets. That is, you sell
off your local banks to foreign banks. Then you go to what's called
market-based pricing. That's the stuff like in California where everything
is free market and you end up with water bills - we can't even imagine
selling off water companies in the United States of America. But imagine
if a private company like Enron owned your water. So then the prices
go through the roof. Then open up your borders to trade - complete free
marketeering. And Stiglitz who was the chief economist, remember he
was running this system, he was their numbers man and he was saying
it was like the opium wars. He said this isn't free trade; this is coercion
trade. This is war. They are taking apart economies through this.
AJ: Well look, China has a 40% tariff on us, we have a 2% on them. That's
not free and fair trade. It's to force all industry to a country that
the globalists fully control.
GP: Well, you know Walmart - I did a story, in fact, if you read my
book. Let me just mention that I've got a book out, "The Best Democracy
Money Can Buy" about how, unfortunately, America has been put up
for sale. "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" is coming out
this week. But I have a story in there about how Walmart has 700 plants
in China. There is almost nothing in a Walmart store that comes from
the United States of America, despite all the eagles on the wall.
AJ: Exactly, like 1984, then they have big flags saying "Buy American"
and there's hardly anything --- it's Orwellian double-think.
GP: What's even worst is they will hire a factory and right next to
it will be the sister factory which is inside a prison. You can imagine
the conditions of these workers producing this lovely stuff for Walmart.
AJ: And if an elitist needs a liver, they just call.
GP: (Laughs) I know, it's grim. In fact, I talked to a guy, Harry Wu,
is his name and, in fact, he broke into, he's been in Chinese prison
for 19 years. No one believed his horrible stories. He actually broke
back into prison, took a camera with him and took pictures of the conditions
and said this is the conditions of factories where Walmart is getting
its stuff made at, it's all....
AJ: I was threatened to be thrown off TV here in Austin when I aired
video of little girls 4-years old chained down, skinnier than Jews in
concentration camps, to die. And I was threatened, if you ever air that
again, you will be arrested.
GP: Well you know, it is horrifying stuff that, unfortunately, I have
been handed and Stiglitz, was very courageous for him to come out and
make these statements. Like I said, he didn't provide me the documents.
The documents really sealed it because it said this is what really happened.
They really do say sign on the dotted line agreeing to 111 conditions
for each nation. And the public has no say; they don't know what the
hell is happening to them. All they know....
AJ: Go back into privatization. Go through these four points. That's
the key. It sends billions to politicians to hand everything over.
GP: Yea, he called it briberization, which is you sell off the water
company and that's worth, over ten years, let's say that that's worth
about 5 billion bucks, ten percent of that is 500 million, you can figure
out how it works. I actually spoke to a Senator from Argentina two weeks
ago. I got him on camera. He said that after he got a call from George
W. Bush in 1988 saying give the gas pipeline in Argentina to Enron,
that's our current president. He said that what he found was really
creepy was that Enron was going to pay one-fifth of the world's price
for their gas and he said how can you make such an offer? And he was
told, not by George W. but by a partner in the deal, well if we only
pay one-fifth that leaves quit a little bit for you to go in your Swiss
bank account. And that's how it's done.
AJ: This is the ....
GP: I've got the film. This guy is very conservative. He knows the Bush
family very well. And he was public works administrator in Argentina
and he said, yea, I got this call. I asked him, I said, from George
W. Bush. He said, yea, November 1988, the guy called him up and said
give a pipeline to Enron. Now this is the same George W. Bush who said
he didn't get to know Ken Lay until 1994. So, you know.....
AJ: So now they are having these white-wash hearings. You know I was
at Enron yesterday in Houston because I'm now here in Austin. We were
like 30-feet from the door, right on the sidewalk and I have it on video
- goons came up and said you can't videotape. I said go ahead and have
me arrested. I mean I'm talking on the sidewalk, Greg.
GP: Well, you know, I was there in May, telling people in Britain you've
never heard of Enron, but ... And these are the guys who have figured
out how to (garbled) this government. In fact, we saw some interesting
documents, a month before Bush took office, Bill Clinton, I think to
get even with Bush's big donor, cut Enron out of the California power
market. He put a cap on the prices they could charge. They couldn't
charge more than one-hundred times the normal price for electricity.
That upset Enron. So Ken Lay personally wrote a note to Dick Cheney
saying get rid of Clinton's cap on prices. Within 48 hours of George
W. Bush taking office, his energy department reversed the clamps on
Enron. OK, how much is that worth for those guys. You know that has
got to be worth, that paid off in a week all the donations.
AJ: Listen at the bombs you are dropping. You are interviewing these
ministers, former head of IMF/World Bank economist - all of this, you've
got the documents, paying people's Swiss Bank accounts, all this happening.
Then you've got Part 2, what do they do after they start imploding?
GP: Well, then they tell you to start cutting your budgets. A fifth
of the population of Argentina is unemployed, and they said cut the
unemployment benefits drastically, take away pension funds, cut the
education budgets, I mean horrible things. Now if you cut the economy
in the middle of a recession that was created by these guys, you are
really going to absolutely demolish this nation. After we were attacked
on September 11, Bush ran out and said we got to spend $50 to $100 billion
dollars to save our economy. We don't start cutting the budget, you
start trying to save this economy. But they tell these countries you've
got to cut, and cut, and cut. And why, according to the inside documents,
it's so you can make payments to foreign banks - the foreign banks are
collecting 21% to 70% interest. This is loan-sharking. If fact, it was
so bad that they required Argentina to get rid of the laws against loan-sharking.
because any bank would be a loan-shark under Argentine law.
AJ: But Greg, you said it yourself and the documents show it. They first
implode the economy to create that atmosphere. They institute the entire
climate that does this.
GP: Yea, and then they say, well gee, we can't lend you any money except
at these loan-shark rates. We don't allow people to charge 75% interest
in the United States. That's loan-sharking.
AJ: Part 3 and Part 4. What do they do after they do that?
GP: Like I said, you open up the borders for trade, that's the new opium
wars. And once you have destroyed an economy that can't produce anything,
one of the terrible things is that they are forcing nations to pay horrendous
amounts for things like drugs - legal drugs. And by the way, that's
how you end up with an illegal drug trade, what's there left to survive
on except sell us smack and crack and that's how...
AJ: And the same CIA national security dictatorship has been caught
shipping that in.
GP: You know, we are just helping our allies.
AJ: This is just amazing. And so, drive the whole world down, blow out
their economies and then buy the rest of it up for pennies on the dollar.
What's Part 4 of the IMF/World Bank Plan?
GP: Well, in Part 4, you end up again with the taking apart of the government.
And by the way, the real Part 4 is the coup d'etat. That's what they
are not telling you. And I'm just finding that out in Venezuela. I just
got a call from the President of Venezuela.
AJ: And they install their own corporate government.
GP: What they said was here you've got an elected president of the government
and the IMF has announced, listen to this, that they would support a
transition government if the president were removed. They are not saying
that they are going to get involved in politics - they would just support
a transition government. What that effectively is is saying we will
pay for the coup d'etat, if the military overthrows the current president,
because the current president of Venezuela has said no to the IMF. He
told those guys to go packing. They brought their teams in and said
you have to do this and that. And he said, I don't have to do nothing.
He said what I'm going to do is, I'm going to double the taxes on oil
corporations because we have a whole lot of oil in Venezuela. And I'm
going to double the taxes on oil corporations and then I will have all
the money I need for social programs and the government - and we will
be a very rich nation. Well, as soon as they did that, they started
fomenting trouble with the military and I'm telling you watch this space:
the President of Venezuela will be out of office in three months or
shot dead. They are not going to allow him to raise taxes on the oil
AJ: Greg Palast, here is the problem. You said it when you first came
out of the gates. They are getting hungry, they are doing it to the
United States now. Enron, from all the evidence that I've seen was a
front, another shill, they would steal assets and then transfer it to
other older global companies, then they blew that out and stole the
pension funds. Now they are telling us that terrorism is coming any
day. It's going to happen if you don't give your rights up. Bush did
not involve Congress and the others who are supposed to be in the accession
if there is a nuclear attack in the secret government, Washington Post
-"Congress Not Advised of Shadow Government." We have the
Speaker of the House not being told. This looks like coup d'etat here.
I'm going to come right out with it. We had better spread the word on
this now or these greedy creatures are going to go all the way.
GP: I'm very sad about one thing. I report this story in the mainstream
press of Britain. I'm on the BBC despite Lord Wakeham. I know he doesn't
like me there. I'm in the BBC, I'm in the main daily paper, which is
the equivalent of the New York Times or whatever, and we do get the
information out. And I'm just very sorry that we have to have an alternative
press, an alternative radio network and everything else to get out the
information that makes any sense. I mean this information should be
available to every American. I mean, after all, it's our government.
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